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Support Chat Session (10/31/00)
4:32 pm: LS_BILL: neat new capability coming in 4.7....
4:33 pm: Mike: what Bill?
4:33 pm: LS_BILL: a tech indicator called "Paint Bars"
4:33 pm: Mike: well Merlin I need to finish that tutorial
4:33 pm: Merlin321: Have you gotten to mixing time frames yet?
4:33 pm: LS_Eric: we won't call it paint bars
4:33 pm: Merlin321: I want to test opening gaps
4:33 pm: Toby: hi, y'all
4:33 pm: Mike: can do that a bit now Merlin with a token
4:33 pm: LS_BILL: you specify a scan, signal, or custom indicator and some colors, I/RT colors the bar chart according to the "value" of the RTL
4:33 pm: Mike: good paint bars a tradestation thingy
4:34 pm: Merlin321: so I need to find the gap on the daily, and then go intraday
4:34 pm: LS_Eric: that'
4:34 pm: Mike: need to paint translucent or on a layer behind the bars
4:34 pm: LS_BILL: just like tradestation paint bars but I think more powerful since full RTL can be used as paint criteria
4:34 pm: LS_Eric: that's why we won't call it paint bars
4:34 pm: LS_BILL: XVT doesn't support translucent drawing mike you know that
4:35 pm: LS_BILL: you have a better name Eric?
4:35 pm: Mike: right but can put paint studies on a layer behind the candles?
4:35 pm: LS_BILL: don't know what you mean Mike
4:36 pm: Merlin321: so they are treated like "objects" like in object oriented art?
4:36 pm: Hayden: Another question about BackTesting and Chart Rules - I get the buy signal showing up but not the sell long and sell short even though I have defined them in the backtest setup
4:36 pm: LS_Eric: I don't have a better name, but I think we might be liable if we copy the exactly
4:36 pm: Mike: you plan to paint the candle bars instead of red/green another color ???
4:36 pm: LS_BILL: each tech indicator in I/RT is like a drawing layer in an art program.
4:36 pm: Mike: ok good Bill then we can place color layer behind the candles good
4:36 pm: LS_BILL: is "Paint Bars" a service mark or trade mark or something?
4:37 pm: Merlin321: Bill, yes, now that I think about it, that's right
4:37 pm: js2: is it just for bar charts?
4:37 pm: LS_Eric: paint bars fine
4:37 pm: LS_BILL: candle sticks have a certain color by definition, I'm talking about 'bars" (OHLC) only
4:37 pm: Hayden: how about "color bars"
4:37 pm: Toby: Bill, instead of paint bars, how about 'Strat Stripes' (strat = strategy)?
4:37 pm: Merlin321: what's the purpose of the paint bars?
4:38 pm: LS_BILL: only for bar charts, e.g. show all bars where CL > HI+LO/2 in green, others in red
4:38 pm: Merlin321: ahh
4:38 pm: Merlin321: very cool
4:38 pm: Hayden: John, I hope you don't mind if I'm trying to squeeze some info out of the
LinnSoft folks
4:38 pm: LS_BILL: I have also revised all histogram drawing to incorporate a rising color and a
declining color
4:39 pm: js2: course not
4:39 pm: LS_BILL: so you can see when the oscillator is rising and falling more clearly
4:39 pm: Merlin321: Bill, perfect
4:39 pm: Toby: that's cool, Bill
4:39 pm: Mike: any luck on IF token?
4:39 pm: Merlin321: Bill, I also saw a program that MA's etc, change color when rising, falling, or sideways
4:39 pm: LS_BILL: MACD, EFI, BULL POWER, BEAR POWER and Custom Indicator histograms will have this
4:40 pm: Mike: great idea Merlin
4:40 pm: Mike: I have markers to tell me my MA slope changes now
4:40 pm: LS_BILL: with "paint bars" you can see bars in red when the MA is falling and bars in green when the ma is rising
4:40 pm: Hayden: Slope changes, I heard about that in a chat a while back, but haven't seen where you set it up
4:41 pm: LS_Chad: Or red when short term MA above long term MA, and green when long term MA above short term MA
4:41 pm: LS_BILL: since the painting criteria is based on a scan or custom indicator you can edit the scan/ci on the fly and the bars change color dynamically
4:41 pm: Mike: I 'd like to see candles be same color, but the strip or layer behind the bar change
color
4:41 pm: Mike: Hayden slope change is a scan I made
4:42 pm: js2: very clever Bill, that's cool.
4:42 pm: Mike: might be a good feature to add to IRT also
4:42 pm: LS_BILL: mike, you are referring to the background color behind the bar or candle?
4:42 pm: Mike: yes
4:42 pm: Mike: that what you referring to also?
4:43 pm: LS_BILL: nice idea, that way the painting would be seen for lines, bars, and candles
4:43 pm: Mike: yes
4:43 pm: LS_Chad: Yes...and make that an option...either paint the bar...or paint the background
4:43 pm: Merlin321: I do a trade where one of my set-ups is the change in slope of the MACD line from positive to negative. I would really appreciate that change of color
4:43 pm: LS_BILL: but your chart background would be very busy.
4:43 pm: Toby: Bill, any chance of patterns (vs. colors) that will work better on black/white printers?
4:43 pm: Mike: please do not color candles but color the section so like
3 pixel vertical section of the particular candle
4:44 pm: LS_BILL: the histogram dual color will make this easy to spot visually
4:44 pm: Mike: chart background busy depends on scan
4:44 pm: Hayden: Question for the experts: is there a way to write a scan based on the Fibonacci arcs? Been looking at them in daily and intraday charts and amazing things come up
4:44 pm: LS_Chad: Easier said than done Mike...you can compress bars into only a few pixels wide
4:44 pm: Mike: if ema cross today it long all day for example so background the long color all day
4:45 pm: Mike: right Chad, use bar width to paint that section
4:45 pm: Mike: Tradestation paints behind the bars
4:45 pm: LS_BILL: a "color background" option could be added to "paint bars". Any other ideas for a catchy name for this feature?
4:45 pm: js2: like the custom scan markers what about a marker taking a snapshot of an indicator value and
placing it at the current bar..
4:45 pm: Mike: Color Coder
4:45 pm: Mike: Color Indicator
4:46 pm: LS_Chad: Custom Bars
4:46 pm: Mike: Paint Stripes
4:46 pm: js2: each new bar would update the indicator value
4:46 pm: Mike: Color Stripes
4:46 pm: Merlin321: Tint-tinabulator, hehe
4:46 pm: LS_Chad: RT Bars
4:46 pm: LS_Chad: Paint/RT Bars
4:46 pm: LS_BILL: is that an "off -color" joke Arnie?
4:47 pm: Merlin321: hehe
4:47 pm: Mike: other questions/issues anyone?
4:47 pm: Hayden: Got some good punners here
4:47 pm: Merlin321: pun is the lowest form of humor, Bill, :)
4:47 pm: LS_BILL: just like assumption is the lowest form of knowledge
4:47 pm: Mike: When/IF IRT gets IF statement token, folks we can have the
horizontal reference lines move automatically with trade signals
4:47 pm: Hayden: I did ask about a scan for Fibonacci arcs in a chart
4:48 pm: Mike: like when signal occurs then and ENTRY hor. ref line is set, and a STOP line, and a TARGET line all automatically based on RTL scan you create
4:48 pm: Merlin321: Bill, I wanted to discuss importing in a little more depth if you have a few minutes
4:48 pm: Mike: ok FIB Tokens Hayden asks???
4:49 pm: Toby: Mike, didn't I learn last week that ENTRY can't be used in a chart, only in a scan?
4:49 pm: LS_BILL: mike is talking about an IFSET conditional set function
4:49 pm: Hayden: I was thinking arcs, but I'll take what I can get
4:49 pm: LS_BILL: yes, ENTRY is only kept track of during BackTesting
4:49 pm: LS_BILL: go ahead Merlin, importing...
4:50 pm: LS_Chad: Needs to be of the form, IF(CONDITION, ACTION)....like
4:50 pm: LS_BILL: hayden, you want to find breaks of certain fib projection lines?
4:50 pm: LS_Chad: IF(MA > CL, SET(V#1, MA) )
4:50 pm: Merlin321: I wasn't able to import with the ASCII date and time in different columns. So I put it in excel and combined date and time, and the import went fine
4:50 pm: LS_BILL: right Chad
4:51 pm: Merlin321: I'm currently importing 5 min S&P data by contract
4:51 pm: Hayden: As an ex painter it's really the arcs that have me impressed, but can't think how to scan
4:51 pm: LS_BILL: Merlin, you have to use "Date" and "Time". If you use "DateTime" IRT gets confused if date and time are in 2 columns
4:51 pm: LS_Chad: or could be IF(CONDITION, ACTION, ELSEACTION)
4:52 pm: Merlin321: I tried resetting the columns in the import settings, but couldn't get it to work that way
4:52 pm: LS_Chad: IF(CL > MA, SET(V#1, CL), SET(V#1, MA) )
4:52 pm: Merlin321: IRT read the times incorrectly
4:52 pm: LS_BILL: RTL is going to be the next programming language before you know it.
4:52 pm: LS_BILL: what format were they in?
4:52 pm: Merlin321: but for some reason, when I combined them, the times read correctly
4:52 pm: LS_Chad: Actually...seems the IF could be built into the set statement....
4:52 pm: Merlin321: ASCII
4:52 pm: Hayden: Chad, is the if function available now? I haven't seen it
4:53 pm: LS_BILL: hh:mm:ss
4:53 pm: Merlin321: It was 5 min, so I used hh:mm
4:53 pm: LS_Chad: SET(CONDITION, PROPERTY, TRUEVALUE, FALSEVALUE)
4:53 pm: LS_BILL: IF or IFSET is a proposed feature not yet implemented
4:53 pm: LS_Chad: No...not available yet
4:53 pm: Merlin321: but it kept reading 8:30 as 23:59
4:54 pm: Merlin321: when I combined them it was fine
4:54 pm: LS_BILL: merlin, email me a few lines from the file and i will test it, could be a bug here.
4:54 pm: Mike: )8:33 Merlin
4:54 pm: Mike: 08:33 Merlin
4:54 pm: Merlin321: OK, np
4:54 pm: Mike: I think IER needs the 4 places
4:55 pm: Mike: IRT
4:55 pm: Merlin321: Now that I have the data contract by contract, what would be the easiest way to create a
continuous chart for BackTesting?
4:55 pm: Mike: Did we answer Hayden's Question?
4:56 pm: Mike: I recommend make them all same name Merlin then Import
4:56 pm: Merlin321: hehe, Mike, that means I have to import 40 contracts all over again
4:56 pm: Hayden: It's OK Mike, can do it later
4:56 pm: Mike: no your question important to you Hayden
4:56 pm: LS_BILL: export 5 minute bars on all contracts, edit each export file changing the ticker to the continuous ticker, then import all files back into the same ticker.
4:57 pm: Mike: 4:49 PM: Hayden: I was thinking arcs, but I'll take what I can get
4:57 pm: Mike: Hayden: I did ask about a scan for Fibonacci arcs in a chart
4:57 pm: Merlin321: Bill, what happens if I just set up an SP*? will it pick up any contracts starting with SP?
4:57 pm: Hayden: Yes, Fibonacci arcs in a chart and trying to write a scan connected to the arcs
4:57 pm: LS_BILL: right now there are no Fibonacci tests in the scan language.
4:58 pm: Mike: brb3
4:58 pm: Hayden: I noticed
4:58 pm: Hayden: Bill, I remember you mentioning Fibonacci a few chats ago, and decided to look into it
4:59 pm: Hayden: but it's all pretty new and need more time to be familiar; also a little reading wouldn't hurt
5 pm: LS_BILL: maybe Eric can shed more light on this, but I see Fibonacci
as a way of studying a specific issue after a major up or down move.
5 pm: Hayden: I do like it also as a way of getting away from MA thinking
5:01 pm: Hayden: The thing that has amazed me is settng up the arcs say on the NASDAQ index and then looking at the arc for many stocks
5:01 pm: Merlin321: Hayden, a little off the subject, but the artist in you might appreciate: I used to work with an artist who made his canvases according to fib ratios. He said they sold better than standard sizes. :)
5:01 pm: LS_Eric: fib used to judge if a move is a Retracement or an outright change in direction by identifying probable
support/resistance
5:02 pm: LS_BILL: so what condition would a Fibonacci scan be looking for?
5:02 pm: Hayden: Thanks Merlin. Don't know about the selling but .....nice to know
5:02 pm: LS_Eric: in the scan language you could probably use the STAT multiplied by fib values to filter for retracements
5:03 pm: LS_Eric: if a fib is measured from the bottom of a move to the top, then the levels indicate possible areas of support
5:03 pm: LS_BILL: right Eric.
5:03 pm: Merlin321: Gotta go. Thanks all. I'll keep working on the data and trying to learn
BackTesting. Maybe I'll be able to contribute something in the future.
5:03 pm: LS_BILL: bye Merlin
5:03 pm: Hayden: In the best circumstances, the arcs hit at times of a major change, up or down. How could we find the times of the past arcs and set up a scan for when the CL passes over the future arc
5:04 pm: LS_Eric: if the market manages to blow through each of them you can begin to look out for a new move instead of just a pullback
5:05 pm: Mike: Other Questions???
5:05 pm: Mike: issues/comments?
5:06 pm: Mike: I love new hor. ref. lines with they alerts
5:06 pm: LS_BILL: great
5:06 pm: Mike: they auto reset as I reposition them by dragging them! great job Bill
5:06 pm: LS_BILL: that was a good idea
5:06 pm: Gardner: is there limit to alert sounds for Mac?
5:06 pm: LS_BILL: you and Toby came up with that as I recall
5:06 pm: Mike: just prefer not to see dialog but audio alert only is only comment
5:07 pm: Mike: Toby hello my friend you here?
5:07 pm: Toby: I'm here
5:07 pm: Mike: great you try hor. ref lines?
5:07 pm: LS_BILL: when 4.7 goes final, the trendline and horz. ref line alerts will conform to the user preferences in setup: alarms
5:07 pm: Toby: my eyes are here, my ears are on CNBC
5:07 pm: Mike: ahh you need 4.7.3 Toby
5:07 pm: Toby: i haven't d/w 4.7.3 yet
5:07 pm: Mike: ok
5:08 pm: LS_BILL: that way you can turn off all alarm boxes or sound in one place
5:08 pm: Mike: wow excellent Bill, then hor. ref can send email alert !!! GREAT WOW
5:08 pm: Mike: perfect Bill
5:08 pm: LS_BILL: Whooooo. mike. I didn't say that. just the boxes and sound options are used at present
5:08 pm: Toby: does 4.7.3 have the trendline break alert?
5:09 pm: Mike: oh I looked at set up alarms and saw email etc...
5:09 pm: LS_BILL: trendline break alerts have been in the program for awhile
5:09 pm: LS_BILL: in fact, ref line alerts were easy to do since we had already done it for trendlines.
5:09 pm: Mike: well better conform to all alarm prefs then :)
5:10 pm: Toby: there are times when you just have to play with I/RT instead of doing stock analysis :-)
5:10 pm: Mike: Toby ref lines and ref line alerts are great for day traders
5:10 pm: Mike: even position traders on charts
5:10 pm: Toby: I can well imagine they would be
5:10 pm: LS_BILL: Chad is helping with his tip of the day/week to highlight non-obvious uses of the product
5:10 pm: Mike: other issues anyone? fire away
5:11 pm: js2: I have a quick question
5:11 pm: LS_BILL: go js
5:11 pm: Toby: any progress on a topics index to the "whole" What's New?
5:11 pm: js2: is there a way to gauge/calculate uptick/downtick momentum?
5:11 pm: js2: sort of a 'smoothed' number.
5:12 pm: Mike: could add a moving average maybe JS
5:13 pm: js2: I'm looking for hitting the bid/offer, and how many times its done, would an MA do it?
5:14 pm: Mike: not sure JS
5:14 pm: LS_BILL: no Toby, it's on my list though, thanks for the ideas on how to accomplish in a semi-automated way.
5:14 pm: LS_Chad: Toby...can go to www.linnsoft.com/search
5:14 pm: LS_Chad: and search for keywords on the web site...
5:15 pm: js2: i like the +'s and -'s, but would like to quantify it into a momentum number
5:15 pm: Toby: did you ever get to look into why UDVR truncates at +10?
5:15 pm: Toby: That's a good idea, Chad....not a final solution though
5:15 pm: LS_Chad: No...but it would search all the "What's New" pages on the web site....
5:15 pm: LS_BILL: js, this would take a special tick data indicator similar to "tick velocity" to calc ratio of trades at the bid vs ask over some n minute period. this is anice idea.
5:16 pm: Mike: Bill any plans to make all stuff info a pdf ie entire manual
5:16 pm: Mike: I have a friend who might be interested to help
5:16 pm: LS_BILL: what do you mean "all stuff" mike?
5:16 pm: js2: if you can do it, it would be a very interesting value I think
5:16 pm: Mike: then can print manuals print on demand at Kinkos with a docutech printer
5:16 pm: Mike: Gardner wanted everything on web in a document I recall
5:17 pm: Gardner: I'm in trouble now...
5:17 pm: Mike: I think I sucked entire web site into an Internet Explorer Archive
5:18 pm: Mike: then a user could take that on a portable, say on a sailboat and search it for anything :)
5:18 pm: LS_Chad: Yes...we have to cater to our mobile sailboat users
5:18 pm: Mike: like Gardner wanted to print entire TOUR also
5:19 pm: Mike: so make TOUR into a nice indexed PDF a good idea
5:19 pm: Mike: I know manual and docs are a big task
5:19 pm: Mike: task
5:19 pm: js2: maybe you could pdf that sailboat to me for use on lake
Michigan Mike!
5:19 pm: LS_Chad: I think we probably could turn tour into a PDF document
5:19 pm: Gardner: yes...would be nice to print with simple click....I get lost printing various pages and links....portrait, then
lanscape, portrait....etc...
5:19 pm: Mike: I like on web but seems some like a printed document
5:20 pm: LS_Chad: Yea, Mike...you give me the sailboat...I'll give you your document
5:20 pm: Mike: js you in Chicago?
5:20 pm: js2: yes, very close to the lake.
5:20 pm: Mike: great Madison, WI here
5:20 pm: Mike: you going to futures show?
5:20 pm: LS_Chad: I make changes daily to the web site...can't make changes to your document on the fly though..
5:20 pm: Mike: hey will we see LinnSoft at MacWorld in Jan?
5:20 pm: LS_Chad: Don't think so.
5:20 pm: js2: very close to you too...:)...now where are you docked? lol
5:21 pm: Mike: any other questions/comments/issues folks?
5:21 pm: Mike: other
5:21 pm: Hayden: Bill, you brought up something about BackTesting that I'd like to verify. For me the backtest is going to shut down at the latest date; that's why I wanted a sell stop to exit a bad position. Seems you are suggesting not including a sell short in rules?
5:22 pm: Mike: here HAyden
5:22 pm: LS_BILL: mike, you need to get a new keyboard with the i and e reversed. Then you could type as fast as you want with no spelling errors.
5:22 pm: Mike: TIME>=1605 AND POS_STATE=1; Long so sell to cover
5:22 pm: Mike: Hayden, that I use for my intraday backtest, so at end of day I test if long or short then I exit the position
5:22 pm: Mike: that is long test
5:22 pm: Mike: TIME>=1605 AND POS_STATE=2; Short so buy to cover
5:23 pm: Mike: that is short test
5:23 pm: LS_BILL: 1605 is the time of the last bar of the session?
5:23 pm: LS_BILL: make that session
5:23 pm: Mike: no session closes later
5:24 pm: Mike: Hayden backtest will exit at end of test I recall
5:24 pm: LS_BILL: sometimes the bar data will not have a bar after 16:00 so the rule might miss.
5:24 pm: Mike: i mean if you have an open position and test ends it will take last price and make that
your exit price of the position
5:24 pm: LS_BILL: if there are multiple days in the test though...
5:25 pm: Mike: my session stops at 4:15 futures
5:25 pm: Hayden: My head is looking at BackTesting as a means for automated trading, so I want to set up a buy signal if criteria are met. I'm talking stocks
5:25 pm: LS_Chad: Mike...for your homework...I want you to type the work "like" 1000 times in a word processor tonight...
5:25 pm: Mike: ok to have a sell short rule Hayden if you wish to take a short position
5:25 pm: LS_Chad: In editing the chat for the web site...found 13 times where you spelled it "liek"
5:26 pm: Mike: yes e comes to fast
5:26 pm: Hayden: No, it's to exit a trade and cut losses
5:26 pm: LS_Chad: thanks Miek
5:26 pm: Mike: ok Hayden if you get a sell signal you can exit your long yes
5:26 pm: Mike: you guys
5:27 pm: Mike: we answer your question Hayden?
5:27 pm: Mike: your
5:27 pm: LS_Chad: yea....do "your" 1000 times when you're finished with "like"
5:27 pm: LS_Chad: 8)
5:27 pm: IRT_Ghost: ok
5:27 pm: LS_Chad: Trick or Treat
5:27 pm: Hayden: One more. Seems that if I set a sell stop in my long position signal the sell short signal will not work
5:27 pm: LS_BILL: mike's gone trick or treating
5:28 pm: IRT_Ghost: well Hayden
5:28 pm: IRT_Ghost: you can have sell signal, do different things
5:28 pm: IRT_Ghost: it can cover long, or can do a reverse, or even be ignored
5:28 pm: IRT_Ghost: all depends on how you do and order the rules
5:29 pm: IRT_Ghost: right Bill?
5:29 pm: LS_BILL: Hayden, the sell short rule is only tested when you are "aside", out of the market. If you have a trading system that flips back and forth
5:29 pm: Hayden: Right, but I noticed that when I included a stop signal in my sell long rule then my sell short rule was not activated
5:29 pm: LS_BILL: between long and short you should use the REVERSE rule to go short from an open long position.
5:30 pm: Hayden: I haven't gotten into the flipping because that wouldn't seem to work in real trading
5:30 pm: Hayden: Can I be wrong? I am a fair amount of the time
5:31 pm: Toby: I have to leave now...see you all next week
5:31 pm: Toby: Adios
5:31 pm: Mike_BOO: bye Toby
5:32 pm: LS_BILL: if you exit a trade, then all rules BELOW the exit rule should be tested for the same bar. If your sell short rule is above the exit rule then it will not be testing until the next bar
5:32 pm:Frankenstein: I gotta run too guys...Happy Halloween...
5:32 pm: Mike_BOO: bye Chad
5:33 pm: js2: bye frank.
5:33 pm: LS_BILL: bye Chad see you tomorrow
5:33 pm: Mike_BOO: sometime Hayden I need two of same rule in the backtest
5:34 pm: Hayden: I have buy rule as 1, sell long as rule 2 and sell short as rule 3
5:34 pm: Mike_BOO: if need help Hayden let me know or Bill we can help you tune it if needed
5:34 pm: LS_BILL: you have the order right Hayden
5:35 pm: Mike_BOO: what price ACTION though?
5:35 pm: Hayden: Thanks BOO, I'm sure I'll be around to haunt you with this. Backtesting is very exciting, but would want it fine tuned
5:35 pm: LS_BILL: 4.7.3 has a new show command that may be useful in "debugging" this.
5:35 pm: Hayden: OK bill
5:35 pm: Mike_BOO: also Hayden do a save as text with backtest window open gives great info there
5:36 pm: Mike_BOO: and that detailed info you can email me or Bill to help debug
5:36 pm: LS_BILL: see if you can include a show command in your sell short rule, that way you can see when the rule is being tested.
5:36 pm: Hayden: Uh Oh, Sienfeld just came on over here. Gotta go. I will email later. Thanks
5:36 pm: LS_BILL: see what's new in 4.7 for info on SHOW command in RTL
5:36 pm: Mike_BOO: item #15 in help 4.7
5:36 pm: Mike_BOO: bye Hayden
5:37 pm: LS_BILL: enjoy Sienfeld
5:37 pm: Mike_BOO: have good Halloween Bill thanks
5:37 pm: Mike_BOO: good coding
5:37 pm: LS_BILL: bye everyone