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4:20 pm:--IRT-- Joining Channel #linnsoft...
4:20 pm:--Topic-- Welcome to Linn Software's chat room. http://www.Linnsoft.com
4:20 pm:--X-- Welcome - Linn Software: Powerful Market Analysis Software for the RealTime Investor for Windows XP and Macintosh OSX. See http://www.Linnsoft.com for complete information, tour, demo, videos, etc... Formal Chat session's are Tuesday's at 4:30 est.
4:33 pm:*** Daniel has joined us
4:33 pm:<LS_Chad> hey guys
4:33 pm:<Daniel> Hi
4:34 pm:<Daniel> Read email...what did you think?
4:34 pm:<LS_Chad> well...we don't capture the market depth....right now
4:34 pm:<LS_Chad> so would have to look into what that involved before I went any further
4:35 pm:<Daniel> right...thanks
4:35 pm:*** Rrick has joined us
4:35 pm:<MPTRADING2> chad, it blew up again
4:36 pm:<MPTRADING2> will try bills procedure later
4:36 pm:<LS_Chad> ok
4:36 pm:<Daniel> it only applys to those feeds that are broker fed and not 3rd party vendor
4:36 pm:<LS_Chad> I think eSignal supplies it
4:36 pm:<LS_Chad> or has option for it to be turned on
4:36 pm:<Daniel> unless CQG supplys Market Depth..I know IB does..
4:37 pm:<Daniel> ah ok
4:37 pm:<Daniel> nice then
4:37 pm:<LS_Chad> right mptrading?
4:37 pm:<MPTRADING2> what are yuo trying to do Daniel ?
4:37 pm:<MPTRADING2> LOL
4:37 pm:<MPTRADING2> LOL
4:37 pm:<Daniel> new speacial super duper feature
4:37 pm:<LS_Chad> doesn't esignal have market depth?
4:37 pm:<MPTRADING2> lots of work done ,and I'm laughing here
4:37 pm:<MPTRADING2> yes it does
4:37 pm:<LS_Chad> isn't there some copyright on dom?
4:38 pm:<MPTRADING2> just if you use to place order
4:38 pm:<MPTRADING2> I guess
4:38 pm:<Daniel> ok..looking for a new market depth pending lot size filter
4:38 pm:<MPTRADING2> but if you want to visualize... I guess no problem
4:38 pm:<Daniel> so you will see the big lotters sitting where and when.
4:39 pm:<MPTRADING2> not so simple Daniel, are you trying to track depht changes, or just lot sizes on each depth
4:39 pm:<Daniel> pending block orders
4:40 pm:<MPTRADING2> lots of difference among each vendor in the way it disseminates depth changes
4:40 pm:<LS_Chad> depth...does that give individual orders? or just size at each price?
4:41 pm:<MPTRADING2> chad, remember our initial work ?
4:41 pm:<Daniel> right now total size at price
4:41 pm:<MPTRADING2> that is what h eis trying to track, well at least he wants a filter on that
4:41 pm:<LS_Chad> right..then how would I track individual orders?
4:42 pm:<LS_Chad> I wouldn't mind doing a market depth type display...and maybe adding some statistics on top of it....but will be pretty involved I'm sure
4:42 pm:<Daniel> if all of a sudden a 200 lot shows up incrementally at one price whether it was 200 one lotters or 1 200 lotter it would show up as the same but I doubt 200 one lotters would do that
4:43 pm:<LS_Chad> so you would want maybe a 2 dimensional dom, that tracked each size historically to some extent?
4:43 pm:<Daniel> so if we filter size...big lotters will be exposed as well as bunched up one lotters all at the same price if thet're smart enough to know where the biggies are waiting
4:44 pm:<Daniel> no need historicallt really...just live would do fine
4:44 pm:<LS_Chad> mptrading, do you have market depth turned on w/ esignal?
4:45 pm:<MPTRADING2> we have level 1 for free
4:45 pm:<Daniel> if the depth changes from 150 to 350 in one instant that would show up as something significant...as the size is reduced you can tell if it's a big lotter or a bunch of small ones
4:46 pm:<MPTRADING2> but not level 2, since you told me your software was not ready to handle it
4:46 pm:<Daniel> ah
4:46 pm:<Daniel> that would be level2 CME?
4:46 pm:<MPTRADING2> y
4:46 pm:<Daniel> hmmm
4:47 pm:<MPTRADING2> 30 or 40 buck extra
4:47 pm:<LS_Chad> market depth is really level II for futures, basically, right?
4:47 pm:*** TinGull has joined us
4:47 pm:<Daniel> nah ..it's level one
4:47 pm:<Daniel> free
4:47 pm:<Daniel> level2 futures is something I never lookied into
4:47 pm:<MPTRADING2> level 1 is included on normal signal
4:48 pm:<TinGull> Hi Chad, just sent you pictures of my charts with the weird time frames going on
4:48 pm:<MPTRADING2> level 1 will show you only the best bid and best ask
4:48 pm:<Daniel> so MPT what i am proposing would only be tied to Level2?
4:49 pm:<Daniel> I know someone with a working version of this on the E-signal feed but I will ask to make sure which level it's based on...1 or 2. I'll let you know Chad.
4:49 pm:<MPTRADING2> depends.., because if prices jumps fast from one price to another, the level 1 info that was there on the ask (for example) may not be there anymore on level 1 data, since it dropped 1 tick (example)
4:50 pm:<Daniel> I know the guy well so I'm pretty sure the guy only used level one.
4:51 pm:<LS_Chad> yea...from my understanding, Market Depth is similar to nas level II...in that you can see the bid/offer size at each price level
4:51 pm:<MPTRADING2> the real problem is,, and I already worked with Chad on this... Is that you need to creat a log for each level of price for you to track any depth info to be used, Right CHAD ?
4:51 pm:<LS_Chad> right
4:52 pm:<LS_Chad> TinGull...I don't really see anything out of ordinary about your chart image...do you have a before picture?
4:52 pm:<MPTRADING2> that for a single level 1, no wimagine the same track you did for me , but with 5 or more levels up and down..
4:53 pm:<TinGull> Yes, I sent you a link to the picture of it before
4:53 pm:<LS_Chad> the last email you send had an image attached, no link
4:53 pm:<LS_Chad> was that the before or after picture?
4:53 pm:<TinGull> link was below the image
4:54 pm:<TinGull> the link was the before, and the picture attached was after
4:54 pm:<TinGull> i want the after
4:54 pm:<LS_Chad> don't see any link....paste it in here
4:54 pm:<TinGull> http://tingull.com/trading/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/Picture%207.png
4:54 pm:<Daniel> right and I had the idea of having a red flash if the order was placed and then pulled or staying red if sitting for the 5 ask columns above....etc
4:55 pm:<Daniel> I should have an answer before 5:30 pm est or early in the morning.
4:55 pm:<MPTRADING2> man, you better have deep pockets, this is lots of custom work
4:55 pm:<Daniel> Linnsoft feature!
4:55 pm:<TinGull> for example, at 13:58 the volume breakdown indicator was showing +200 on the original, and on the one I want to see...the level at 13:58 is at about 0
4:56 pm:<MPTRADING2> what linsoft feature ?
4:56 pm:<Daniel> it's another Pro application feature that would attract business
4:56 pm:<Daniel> Market Depth Analyzer
4:56 pm:<Daniel> ;-)
4:57 pm:<LS_Chad> the link...shows alot fewer bars
4:57 pm:<LS_Chad> you're saying that was the "before"?
4:57 pm:<TinGull> That is what I normally see.
4:57 pm:<TinGull> 99% of the time
4:57 pm:<LS_Chad> so after you close and reopen, you see MORE bars (I thought was other way around)
4:58 pm:<TinGull> Sometimes, after I close and reopen, I see more bars
4:58 pm:<LS_Chad> ok...I'll keep a 233 tickbar chart of YM open tomorrow...and see if I can reproduce this
4:58 pm:<TinGull> thats what I want
4:58 pm:<LS_Chad> I test this briefly yesterday and couldn't reproduce...chart was exactly same
4:58 pm:<TinGull> I sent you the chart def too if it helps
4:58 pm:<LS_Chad> you're using latest beta 4, right?
4:58 pm:<TinGull> yea...as i said...it's not all the time, but it clearly is doing it
4:58 pm:<TinGull> beta 3is what you sent m,e
4:59 pm:<TinGull> and also...the time and sales window keeps popping up front for no reason
4:59 pm:<LS_Chad> you're on mac?
4:59 pm:<TinGull> yea
5 pm:<LS_Chad> yea, no b4 on mac y et
5 pm:<TinGull> oh ok. Is there anything that I can export to help the situation?
5 pm:<Daniel> which mac Tin?
5 pm:<TinGull> before I close it for the night?
5:01 pm:<TinGull> 933mhz g4 tower
5:01 pm:<Daniel> woah
5:01 pm:<TinGull> :)
5:01 pm:<Daniel> running a minimal setup?
5:01 pm:<TinGull> running 10.4.8
5:01 pm:<Rrick> Can you say vectors ;-)
5:01 pm:<TinGull> yea, I just run my mail prog and IRT and Thinkorswim
5:02 pm:<Daniel> I have G5 and what I use in IRT my Mac could not handle it or was reporting "no data" with IB during the day and it wasn't reliable at night for slow markets.
5:03 pm:<TinGull> oh...mine works fabulously
5:03 pm:<TinGull> with IRT and dtniq
5:03 pm:<LS_Chad> here is my 233tick chart on eSignal for today: http://www.charthub.com/images/2006/11/21/YM_2.png
5:03 pm:<LS_Chad> and DTNiQ: http://www.charthub.com/images/2006/11/21/FlaviaChart.png
5:03 pm:<Daniel> dual G5 1.8ghz 3 gigs of ram and I had to go to a P4 3.0ghz HT with 2 gigs.
5:03 pm:<LS_Chad> I'll have to say that those look pretty much right now...very close
5:04 pm:<LS_Chad> i'll test realtime tomorrow and see
5:04 pm:<TinGull> yea, it looks like my charts usually do
5:04 pm:<TinGull> I just need to figure out how it got this way, and keep it this way. It's perfect right now
5:04 pm:<LS_Chad> you're using DTNiQ for your realtime data, right?
5:04 pm:<TinGull> yes
5:05 pm:<TinGull> Daniel, i'm going with a new imac20 next month, so I can use PC progs. Just too die hard a mac guy to give it all up
5:05 pm:<LS_Chad> I did find a flaw in the VB indicator in relation to Volume Bars (or Change Bars or Range Bars)
5:05 pm:<Daniel> Chad in those chrts you posted...the candles are different
5:05 pm:<LS_Chad> will be fixed for next release
5:05 pm:<Daniel> can see it very easily
5:05 pm:<Daniel> if candles are different the Vb will also be
5:06 pm:<LS_Chad> some candles are off very slightly (a tick here and there)
5:06 pm:<LS_Chad> expected on a "tickbar" chart
5:06 pm:<Daniel> oh thanks...so the range bar chart U sent exposed theproblem?
5:06 pm:<Rrick> Would that be causing the volume spikes I'm seeing Chad?
5:06 pm:<LS_Chad> esignal probably has a few more ticks than DTNiQ
5:06 pm:<MPTRADING2> chad, did you read my PM ?
5:06 pm:<Daniel> yeah different closes and opening on bars
5:07 pm:<Daniel> makes a huge difference..i may have to go with Esignal for these volume related studies
5:08 pm:<Daniel> unless what you know found will be about the same at the end of the week...give or take here and there
5:08 pm:<Daniel> *now
5:08 pm:<LS_Chad> I've heard that DTN can sometimes put together multiple trades into one
5:08 pm:<Daniel> yes it much better than IB
5:08 pm:<LS_Chad> while esignal gives all of them
5:08 pm:<Daniel> not*
5:08 pm:<LS_Chad> yea, it is much better than IB
5:08 pm:<TinGull> I heard they do for historical stuff past like 5 days
5:09 pm:<TinGull> http://tingull.com/trading/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/Picture%2071.png
5:09 pm:<TinGull> thats my 233T chart for today
5:09 pm:*** Goldman has joined us
5:09 pm:<Daniel> yes..I amcomparing my chart to an E-Signal user and the difference in the signals are astounding..especially on extremes of the day
5:10 pm:<TinGull> are you finding that esignal is much better?
5:10 pm:<Daniel> let me explain it like this.....
5:11 pm:<Daniel> in order for me to match 95% of ESignal's generated signals on my chart I have to download data from DTNMA at the close...IB live it will match maybe 50%
5:12 pm:<TinGull> interesting
5:12 pm:<Daniel> so DTNIQ will be close but E Signal is still better by about 20%...that 20%= to alot of money especially where they make the most difference...the market turns ;-)
5:13 pm:<TinGull> hmmm.....I'd never heard that before. A lot of folks were real happy with dtniq.
5:13 pm:<TinGull> I'll look into esignal then
5:13 pm:<LS_Chad> oh yea, IB is going to give you much fewer ticks (put together)
5:13 pm:<LS_Chad> sure
5:13 pm:<LS_Chad> so if you're doing tickbar charts...you'll get fewer bars
5:13 pm:<LS_Chad> about half as many
5:14 pm:<LS_Chad> you should get all the prices
5:14 pm:<Daniel> yes but when you use tools that filter and show the players in different sizes you will notice a hue difference
5:14 pm:<LS_Chad> but not each trade individually
5:14 pm:<Daniel> right and in relation to the VB it makes a big difference on lows and highs
5:14 pm:<LS_Chad> this page discusses that http://www.linnsoft.com/qa/a/108.htm
5:14 pm:<LS_Chad> oh yea
5:15 pm:<LS_Chad> ok...DTNiQ (and DTNMA) are giving me 20,028 ticks for today (RTH)
5:17 pm:*** MPTRADING2 has left
5:17 pm:*** MPTRADING2 has joined us
5:17 pm:*** MPTRADING2 has left
5:18 pm:*** MPTRADING2 has joined us
5:18 pm:<Daniel> will be close to Esignal I think...but the few thousand difference is where the market turns...the most important spots in the day.
5:18 pm:<TinGull> So Chad...with that picture I posted a link to...is there any way I can count the bars for the day and figure out how many ticks are in each bar?
5:18 pm:<LS_Chad> 20,031 for eSignal
5:18 pm:<LS_Chad> so right in line
5:18 pm:<Daniel> y
5:18 pm:<Rrick> I would like to request that copyright Linnsoft be removed from printed output...
5:19 pm:<LS_Chad> Rrick..fax us what you're seeing on your printout that you don't like
5:19 pm:<Daniel> no comparison to IB :-(
5:19 pm:<LS_Chad> 718.304.1179
5:20 pm:<MPTRADING2> Chad, did you see my reply ?
5:20 pm:<LS_Chad> I would imagine IB gave about half that many ticks
5:20 pm:<LS_Chad> by you should have about 86 bars tingull
5:20 pm:<LS_Chad> assuming you're looking at the 9:30 to 4:15 session
5:20 pm:<Rrick> Any copyright over my custom content should not have your copyright over it...
5:21 pm:<LS_Chad> the "Position" indicator will count your bars for you
5:21 pm:<LS_Chad> I had 86 today, 121 yesterday
5:21 pm:<LS_Chad> http://www.charthub.com/images/2006/11/21/YM_3.png
5:21 pm:<LS_Chad> you can grab definition and import from there if you want
5:22 pm:<LS_Chad> the copyright identifies the image as being produced by I/RT / Linn Software
5:22 pm:<LS_Chad> email bill@linnsoft.com about this Rrick....really his call
5:23 pm:<LS_Chad> what type of chart are you printing?
5:23 pm:<LS_Chad> MP, Footprint? bar/candle
5:23 pm:<Rrick> Both quote pages and a bar chart with custome signals etc...
5:26 pm:<Rrick> If you use ms word or excel do they stick their copyright on every printed page?
5:26 pm:<Daniel> mp..have you gone into bolter's room yet? I have not had the time this week.
5:26 pm:<Daniel> maybe tomorrow
5:27 pm:<MPTRADING2> I did reply to MK 2 days ago
5:27 pm:<LS_Chad> email bill@linnsoft.com Rick
5:27 pm:<Daniel> ok
5:28 pm:<MPTRADING2> Chad, did you see my reply on PM?
5:28 pm:<TinGull> Thanks for the help Chad. Take care
5:28 pm:<Rrick> Ok, Chad, I will email bill... Thanks...
5:28 pm:*** TinGull has left
5:28 pm:<MPTRADING2> Daniel do a google on G3 Vison software from Cantor
5:29 pm:<Daniel> ok will do
5:29 pm:<Mike> hi all
5:29 pm:<Daniel> what is it?
5:29 pm:<MPTRADING2> take a look
5:29 pm:<MPTRADING2> it is a depth bond analyser
5:30 pm:<Daniel> hmm..screen shot anywhere?
5:30 pm:<MPTRADING2> look at their video
5:30 pm:<Daniel> cant find the linkwith a video!
5:30 pm:<Daniel> please post in pm!
5:31 pm:<Mike> hi Chad
5:31 pm:<Mike> anyone can answer that corn future email on maillist please IB symbol I think he needs
5:34 pm:<Daniel> man I answered him directly!
5:34 pm:<Daniel> sent screen shots and all
5:34 pm:<Daniel> 5 mins after it was posted...since I trade grains also
5:35 pm:<Daniel> no reply or thanks I get
5:36 pm:<Mike> ok dan i check email
5:36 pm:<LS_Chad> what exchange is that daniel?
5:36 pm:<LS_Chad> CME
5:36 pm:<Mike> said in his email i forgot
5:36 pm:<Daniel> ecbot
5:36 pm:<Mike> Chad I miss seeing IRt in the TASC articles submission section :) free press there and free showing cahrts/features :)
5:37 pm:<Mike> yeah ecbot
5:37 pm:<LS_Chad> ZCZ6, right?
5:37 pm:<LS_Chad> next time they have an article worth writing a tip about...I'll send one in
5:37 pm:<Daniel> yes
5:38 pm:<Daniel> but move to ZCH7
5:38 pm:<Mike> great thanks Chad
5:38 pm:<Mike> just got mag today
5:38 pm:<LS_Chad> they have same guy write these crazy indicators....
5:38 pm:<Mike> auto trend lines was one last month IRT had that maybe!
5:38 pm:<Daniel> volume in H7 2 x of Z^
5:38 pm:<Mike> i mean maybe same not sure
5:39 pm:<Mike> STOC with EMA filter thsi minth i see, jsut came todays mail
5:39 pm:<Daniel> ZWH7 for wheat...ZCH7 for Corn and ZSF7 for Soy
5:39 pm:<Mike> someoen shold do article on IRT's MP VP stuff
5:40 pm:<LS_Chad> the last one I got was nother of "Ehler's Indicators"...some fourier transform nonsense
5:40 pm:<Daniel> again!
5:40 pm:<Daniel> ?
5:40 pm:<Daniel> man I have 10 years of TASC archives
5:40 pm:<Daniel> on my HD
5:40 pm:<LS_Chad> I've implemented some of his indicators in the past...and don't know of a single person using them
5:41 pm:<Mike> right ok was free press i liked really
5:41 pm:<Daniel> yeah...electronic trading competition has changed considerably.
5:41 pm:<Mike> what's new in beta Chad?
5:41 pm:<Mike> betas?
5:41 pm:<Mike> or near term plans?
5:42 pm:<LS_Chad> I've added VA % to the TPO indicator
5:42 pm:<LS_Chad> abilty to toggle ref lines in MP charts now..just by double-clicking on the price in the price scale
5:42 pm:<LS_Chad> works really nicely
5:43 pm:<LS_Chad> added a "normalize" option to the VB indicator..which basically expresses the delta as a percent of volume
5:43 pm:<LS_Chad> fixed profile indicator so it works properly on tick-based charts
5:43 pm:<Mike> great VB indicator is great
5:43 pm:<LS_Chad> fixed Daniels "FILL" price for MP ref lines
5:44 pm:<Daniel> thnx
5:44 pm:<LS_Chad> added a nice trick to MP charts...you can now shift-clickc on the "Blocks" button..and it will cycle through fonts
5:44 pm:<LS_Chad> through all fonts on your system
5:44 pm:<Mike> any new in IR Tbesides TPO/VP Stuffs?
5:44 pm:<LS_Chad> nope, that's it
5:44 pm:<LS_Chad> that's coming in B5. I discussed B4 stuff last week.
5:45 pm:<Mike> right
5:45 pm:<LS_Chad> Gotta run guys...have a nice evening.
5:45 pm:<Mike> thanks you for chat
5:45 pm:<Mike> taek care
5:45 pm:<Mike> thanks for chat logs
5:45 pm:<Daniel> man..other than ability to color the whole profile based on if it had less or more volume than the previous I can't think of anything else
5:45 pm:<LS_Chad> ;) yea, until I did that...then you'd say "unless it did something else" :)
5:45 pm:<Mike> IRT can do all that other app does
5:45 pm:<LS_Chad> always something
5:46 pm:<Mike> or all needed to maek money at least
5:46 pm:<Daniel> lol
5:46 pm:<Daniel> full of ideas...
5:46 pm:<LS_Chad> you'll really like the double-click to add/remove ref lines....can just quickly add one temporarily now...then remove
5:46 pm:<LS_Chad> see ya guys
5:47 pm:<Mike> they deleteD?
5:47 pm:<Mike> or show / unshow?
5:47 pm:<Daniel> huh..was that directed at me?
5:47 pm:<Daniel> imlost
5:47 pm:<Daniel> oh Mike
5:47 pm:<Daniel> ok
5:48 pm:<Daniel> beta up Chad
5:48 pm:<Daniel> ?
5:48 pm:<Mike> o look for you
5:49 pm:<Mike> no beta 5
5:49 pm:<Mike> sub here?
5:51 pm:<Mike> i see a white box on green bar on MP charts now?
5:52 pm:<Daniel> yes
5:52 pm:<Daniel> 50%
5:52 pm:<Daniel> range
5:52 pm:<Daniel> good addition
5:53 pm:<Mike> ahh neat
5:53 pm:<Mike> ie median :)
5:54 pm:<Mike> could do in ref lien also maybe
5:55 pm:<Rrick> Any way to setup the default preferences to a drawing tool like the trendline tool?
5:55 pm:<Mike> yes
5:56 pm:<Mike> setup: prefs: tech indicators: pick ti
5:56 pm:<Mike> tha will then be default of the ti
5:57 pm:<Mike> can have multiple defaults also called poresets
5:57 pm:<Rrick> Oh, wow, Mike thanks ;-) Dude, you rock!!!
5:58 pm:<Mike> thx
5:58 pm:<Mike> IRT is great
5:58 pm:<Mike> fkeys buttons nice also and button menus
5:59 pm:<Rrick> Chad, email sent ;-)
5:59 pm:<Rrick> Mike, can IRT do a fkey for a trendline tool?
6 pm:<Daniel> ok ciao all!
6 pm:*** Daniel has left
6 pm:<Mike> yes
6 pm:<Mike> fkey can invoke trendlien drawign tool i believe
6 pm:<Rrick> So many params, so little time;-)
6:01 pm:<Mike> good program
6:01 pm:<Mike> flexable!
6:01 pm:<Mike> user can really make it to what they desire!
6:02 pm:<Rrick> I like it a lot!!!
6:03 pm:<Mike> good
6:03 pm:<Mike> it a great tool